http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5428998.cms'First they called me a joker, now I am a dangerous thinker'
Shobhan Saxena, TNN, 10 January 2010, 12:26am IST
Slávoj Zizek is an unusual philosopher with unfashionably inflexible
left-wing views. He also loves Hollywood classics. The 59-year-old
academic has written more than 30 books on subjects as diverse as
Alfred Hitchcock, Lenin and 9/11. A self-proclaimed Leninist, the
Slovenian thinker believes that "communism will triumph finally". On
his first visit to India this week, Zizek spoke about global
capitalism, Gandhi, Bollywood and Buddhism. Excerpts from the
interview:
You call yourself a Leninist but the media in the West has called you
a 'rock star' and the 'Marx Brother'. How do you react to such labels?
With resigned melancholy. They try to say that this guy may be
interesting and provocative but he is not serious. To them, I am like
a fly that annoys you and provokes you but should not be taken
seriously. Though, of late, they have been dubbing me as someone more
threatening. In the last two years, the tone has changed. First, there
were Marx Brothers' jokes and now they say I am the most dangerous
philosopher in the West. But I don't care.
You also don't care when they say that you glorify political violence.
For me, the 20th century communism is the biggest ethical-political
catastrophe in history, greater catastrophe than fascism. But in the
first years of the October Revolution, in spite of the so-called Red
Terror, there was sexual liberation and literary explosion before it
turned into a nightmare. I don't accept the right-wing critique that
says it was evil from the very beginning.
But what's your stand on political violence?
In an abstract sense, I am opposed to violence. But nobody is actually
against violence. Look at the Buddhists. They say you shouldn't kill,
but then they have all the exceptions. During the 40s, one of the
great Zen philosophers was writing articles not only justifying
Japanese invasion of China but also giving advice on how Buddhist
enlightenment allows you to kill without guilt.
How can you dismiss Buddhism so easily? It's the fastest growing
religion in the world.
In the West, Buddhism is the new predominant ideology. Things are so
unstable and confusing that with one speculation you can lose billions
of dollars in a minute. The only thing that can explain this is
Buddhism which says that everything is an appearance. That's why the
Dalai Lama is so popular in Hollywood.
You have also been critical of Gandhi. You have called him violent. Why?
It's crucial to see violence which is done repeatedly to keep the
things the way they are. In that sense, Gandhi was more violent than
Hitler.
A lot of people will find it ridiculous to even imagine that Gandhi
was more violent than Hitler? Are you serious when you say that?
n Yes. Though Gandhi didn't support killing, his actions helped the
British imperialists to stay in India longer. This is something Hitler
never wanted. Gandhi didn't do anything to stop the way the British
empire functioned here.
For me, that is a problem.
I guess you have no respect for Gandhi who is a tall figure in this country.
I respect him. But I don't respect him for his peaceful ways,
vegetarianism, etc. I don't care about that. But Gandhi somehow
succeeded in carrying on his principled attitude with pragmatic
spirit. It's very difficult to maintain this balance. But again I feel
Ambedkar was much better than Gandhi. My favourite one-liner from
Ambedkar is "no caste without outcasts". I am for Ambedkar's radical
approach towards the caste issue.
In your new book, 'First as Tragedy, Then as Farce', you have analyzed
the recent financial crisis. Do you see it as an opportunity for the
Left?
I don't believe my leftist friends who say this is a wonderful
opportunity for the Left. That's the tragedy of the Left. There may be
hundreds of protest movements against global capitalism but there is
no alternative proposal. A majority of the leftists today want global
capitalism with a human face.
You are a leftist philosopher who loves Hollywood classics. Don't you
see a contradiction there?
Hollywood is ambiguous but it's worth analysis. The Hollywood products
are the best indicators of where we are moving in our collective
ideology. If you look at reality, it's confusing, but in Hollywood you
get the distilled version of reality. At the same time, on the margins
of Hollywood you have wonderful filmmakers such as Robert Altman and
Woody Allen. If you ignore Hollywood, you end up copying the worst of
Hollywood.
You seem to have ignored Bollywood...
That's why I am here. It's chaotic and too colourful for us but I like
this experience. It's a different type of narrative. It's like the
medieval painting where you don't have to make a distinction between
the foreground and background. I like even the fake Bollywood like
Slumdog Millionaire. First, I resisted the movie, but I liked how it
showed the brutality of life. This is something unimaginable in the
West. It's a happy story but nonetheless the reality remains. In the
West, a feel-good story cannot be combined with brutal social reality.
You can't be here just to see Bollywood flicks?
No, I am here to study how the modern systems like the IT industry in
Bangalore, and traditional way of life co-exist amid contradictions of
globalization. I have more hopes from India than China. In China, we
are witnessing the rise of authoritarian capitalism. That's very
scary.
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